Governance in Bay CIty?

Valentino Tendaze Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:18 am

I am posting the recent discussion via Group Notice (as best I can, given the fact that some notices don't seem to be delivered) here, as I think this is a more appropriate forum (!) for discussion. Here are the posts in the order (I think) in which they were received:

1.

Group Notice
From: Gavin Hird
Subject: Govenment in SecondLife or Bay City - keep it from me OR??

Have you ever thought there might be a need for local government in SecondLife or even in Bay City?

Do we need a Mayor, a Parliament or even consider this:
There are many disputes and potential disputes in SecondLife that could benefit from formal resolution: disputes about broken agreements, land use, alleged griefing, extortion, etc. So do we need a court - law?

The folks at Metaverse Republic will give you some of the insights you never knew you needed.

Sunday March 1 at 11am PDT. LM enclosed.

2.

Group Notice
From: Tim Vantelli
Subject: Response to previous notice

Not sure about everyone else but I'm finding it very difficult to get online at the right time for these Bay City meetings. Too much RL to deal with I guess So I have attached a note expressing my personal opinion on this and other matters that have been raised in recent Bay City group notices. Please don't grief me if my opinion differs from yours, we are all entitled to have our own!

This notice has an attachment.

Notecard from Tim Vantelli (attached to previous Group Notice):
Subject: Personal Message to Bay City Residents

Dear All,

First, let me introduce myself. I am just an ordinary member of the human race with a computer and a Second Life account who is also the proud virtual owner of a piece of virtual land in a virtual region called Bay City. In this regard I assume I am just the same as everyone else on this group list.

As we are all aware, Bay City is a piece of virtual mainland administered and governed by a real life corporation called Linden Labs who provide a virtual world called Second Life for us to indulge ourselves in on our computers once in a while. Second life is not real life. It doesn't really exist. it's a virtual world. A computer game of sorts. Sorry for stating the obvious. And Bay City is a virtual region in a virtual world and as such is identical to many other virtual mainland regions that exist in this Second Life game we like to play. Sorry for stating the obvious again.

So why am I writing this note and what is my point other than stating the obvious I hear you scream!

I am writing this note because I am becoming concerned. I am becoming concerned at what I am hearing in this group's notices and what other Second Life residents are telling me. I am not normally one for ever standing up and complaining or speaking my mind. I'm British for crying out loud and I usually keep very quiet and accept everything that goes on without the slightest complaint! However this time I do not want to remain the silent majority because I have a feeling that if I do then life here in this little part of this virtual world might just change for the worse and I will not enjoy indulging myself here any more like I used to. I would very much like to attend the group meetings that I note are becoming more and more frequent and voice my concerns there but unfortunately this is extremely difficult for me due to time zone issues and real life commitments which is why I am resorting to sending a group notice in order to express my personal opinions. For this I apologise.

So now let me get to the point I want to make. If I wanted to buy some virtual land where I could guarantee some community conformity, some regulations on what my virtual neighbours could virtually build next door to me, if I was happy for someone in virtual "authority" to tell me I could not texture my virtual property bright luminous green or cover my virtual ground with virtual snow then I would spend my precious money on some virtual land on a private island where the region owner could provide this authority and this conformity for me. However I have chosen to invest my money on a piece of Second Life virtual mainland where I accept that the only authority that exists is that of Linden Labs through their normal terms of use, code of conduct, and complaints procedure. That is my choice and as such I share it with every one of you as owners of Bay City virtual mainland.

As much as I love Bay City's theme, its waterways and streets, I would feel abhorrent to anyone inflicting a level of authority over it that was extra to the controls that already exist in Second Life for every other mainland region and resident. If those controls existed then it would simply not be Second Life for me any more. Bay City is a virtual piece of Second Life mainland, it does not need a mayor, a parliament, a law court, a police department or any other virtual creation by individuals who attempt to apply REAL tangible control and conformity over other Second Life residents. Play at being policemen, mayors, judges and lawyers as much as you want but don't try to make it real in this virtual world we share. The day we allow people acting out their fantasies here in Second Life to inflict real control and not virtual control over other residents will be a very sad day indeed in my honest opinion.

This is just my personal opinion. Nothing more. I would like to voice it in person on Sunday 1st March at 11am PDT but I will be unable to. If someone could suggest a formal mechanism by which non-attendees of meetings could express their opinions and that minutes of meetings could be recorded and distributed then that would be fantastic.

Best regards,

Tim Vantelli

3.

Group Notice
From: Gavin Hird
Subject: Clarificiation to Sunday's Meeting at 11am

Thanks to Tim for the last note. Just a clarifications regarding the meeting at 11 am Sunday:

It is not a Bay City Alliance meeting per se, but the invitation has been distributed to the Alliance members. The meeting is published in the SL Event calendar and address a wide audience all over the grid.

On the note that SL is a game; why do you as a UK citizen have to pay VAT in SL, while I don't? RL kicks in all over the grid far beyond Linden Lab even if we want it or not.

Cheers,
Gavin

4.

Group Notice
From: Tim Vantelli
Subject: Response to Gavin's question

Hi Gavin, I pay tax on online gaming because my RL government is different to yours with different laws and taxes. So my point is simply this: with all these RL rules and taxes and general crap we have to deal with all the time in our daily lives, why attempt to recreate bureaucracy in SL?? If you want bureaucracy then you can always go buy some land on a private island where the region owner can make your life a misery! Personally I am happy with SL the way it is

5.

Group Notice
From: Gavin Hird
Subject: Is SecondLife game or business?

For the ongoing discussion I think it is important to keep in mind that:

* Linden Lab actively markets SecondLife as a Business Development Platform.
* Many of us bought in to Bay City as an area regulated for business development

* SecondLife is not a game a such. There is no quest, no purpose, no programmed behavior or end-point. It is a melting pot of creativity, culture, cross border contact and interaction as well as pioneering spirit, All based on the great platform Linden make.

Cheers,
Gavin

6.

Group Notice
From: BlueGin Yifu
Subject: About the Bay City Alliance

Attached is a note about the Bay City Alliance. Thanks to everyone who cares enough to share ideas and particiate in discussions.

The objectives for the BC Alliance remain the same: this is an informal group for communicating, marketing, and planning events and celebrations. Your continued membership and participation are appreciated. Happy Weekend to all!

This notice has an attachment.

Notecard from BlueGin Yifu (attached to previous Group Notice):
Subject: About the Bay City Alliance

Hello, everyone!

This is just a reminder that the Bay City Alliance is an OPEN membership group for ANYONE interested in Bay City development. The BC Alliance is for communicating, marketing, and planning events and celebrations. (The mission has not changed since the start.)

People are welcome to use this group for communicating about projects and events, making style suggestions, or organizing another group for governing Bay City. Everyone's ideas are welcome; discussion is great.

Those who care enough to spend time in making improvements to our little community are especially appreciated. A big thanks to YOU !!!

However, the Bay City Alliance IS NOT a governing group. There are no officers or rules or limits on membership. The BC Alliance is just an informal group to help build a sense of community and.......... most importantly ................ to make Second Life in Bay City more rewarding.

My personal feeling is that the people who want to make Bay City better should spend more time here and sponsor events. I think what we need most of all are shiny, happy people in our streets!

Happy Weekend!

Your Friend, BlueGin Yifu

Valentino Tendaze Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:35 am

My own personal opinion?

There cannot be governance/government unless all the residents unanimously agree to it, as we (as Mainland residents, not Island owners) cannot enforce it and therefore it would need to be 'voluntary'.

Given the discussion I posted above, it seems to me that we would not get unanimous agreement, therefore a Bay City "government" could never work.

Having said that, I would however, suggest:

That it might be beneficial for us to elect a Bay City "Mayor", to represent us to LL and perhaps act as an impartial mediator if required in resident-resident disputes?

The election would need to be free and fair, run in-world for at least 2 weeks and only be open to current landowners within BC. I suggest that the Mayorial candidates should be nominated and seconded by at least 2 other BC residents, and that they need to agree to stand, as they will need some 'spare' time to fulfil their mayorial duties.
That we distribute the 'building guidelines' drafted by Marianne McCann as - just as it says - guidelines for BC residents, along with the freebie texture pack provided by LL.

Noting that:
- Guidelines are not rules, i.e. they are voluntary.
- We cannot enforce them, other than by Abuse Reporting any obvious ToS infringements.

Best,

Valentino

OftenHird Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:06 am

I agree with Valentino, but would add that I think a fixed "term" of Mayoral duty would be a good idea (maybe 12/24 months), but that the same person could be elected again...

You can't impose "law" on Bay City, it is mainland without covenant and with LOTS of land for sale anyone with L$ can and might move in.

Yes issue building "guidelines" and helpful guidance/textures but you cannot enforce designs on people in Bay City - if you want to do that buy an island!

Keep the police - they help us "keep the peace" so why not, but ultimately that is done by LL. As far as I see it I am glad that there is at least someone to help us with griefers etc.

Often

Tim Vantelli Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:11 pm

I can't really comment on the idea of electing a mayor unless there is better clarification on the role that a mayor would undertake. I don't personally believe we need one, so I think the first step would be to provide a justification in terms of drafting a proposed list of roles and responsibilities for that position. I would also like to see a statement from Linden Labs on the degree to which they would recognise such a role. Only then can I make an informed view as to how someone acting out such a role might impact me as an independent SL resident with land and interests in Bay City.

Before jumping to the stage of actually electing a mayor, at a minimum I would like to see a vote by all current residents on whether they actually want a mayor or not in the first place! If the role of a mayor might impact a resident's current rights, freedoms, choices or finances in ANY way what so ever, then that vote would need to be a unanimous one in the same way as has been suggested by Valentino for any form of government. To give just one example, if a mayor or anyone else can represent a resident in, say, a discussion and decision process with Linden Labs without that resident's active participation and ongoing permission then I would see that as a breach of that resident's rights and freedom.

Argos Hawks Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:23 pm

Resident governments cannot work on the mainland. It's a matter of authority. We don't have any. The only authority on the mainland is LL, period. Any other attempts to set up a government is at best roleplaying, and at worst an invitation to griefing. Setting up a Bay City government makes about as much sense as the police department, and I'm not surprised that this idea came from the police department founder.

If we set up rules for Bay City, there's absolutely no way to enforce them, and there will never be a way. The most you can have is a self-important busy-body that goes around and threatens people with ARs unless they fall in line with the phony rules. It simply doesn't work.

If we decide that we need a representative to talk to LL on some specific topic, that's fine. An elected mayor to serve out an ongoing term is just silly. The only people that I could possibly consider for something like that would be someone that I genuinely knew didn't want the position.

Marianne McCann Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:38 pm

I have to agree with Argos on this. I think there is room for some organizing -- it's what we do in the Alliance. There is room for guidelines, and all that. Beyond such -- I'm not convinced. I don't see where we need a ruling elite in our city (we already have LL, after all). I dont mind "guidelines" or "suggestions." I do, however, rankle at "rules." I certainly don't think we need courts!

And as it is, we do have a LL contact, who is willing and able to talk to *any* of us, and help with our City's business. Through him we might be able to finally use the various facilities around town. We don't need an elected body to do this.

If anything, our goal should be to make our Bay City places the best they can be, respect our neighbors, and otherwise do what we want to do, ya know?

Ewan Mureaux Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:42 pm

I see the position of Mayor being something like this.........

ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?
WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,...
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: ...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh.
ARTHUR: I am your king!
WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.
WOMAN: Well, how did you become King, then?

king

Marianne McCann Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:56 pm

While we talk about this, some history about the last big time there was an inworld government. It did not necessarily fare all that well.

http://secondlife.wikia.com/wiki/Confederation_of_Democratic_Simulators

http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2004/12/03/why-discussing-governments-is-so-hard/

http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2005/02/27/neualtenburg-sls-most-hated-project/

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